Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

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Alex Mc
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Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby Alex Mc » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:57 pm

Hello all,

I would appreciate your speaker advice. I have a DAC XP+, x-power and two PSXR's. My music source is Tidal through a Streamline 2. I have been using Dali Ikon 6's, but now its time to upgrade.

I am thinking of purchasing used, either PMC Twenty 24 or B&W CM10 S2, which can be bought for around a similar price.

I listen to a lot of dance/rock music and the problem that I have is that the system is set up in a large conservatory with little soft furnishings. The size is about 8m x 6m x 3m tall. At present, the sound from my Dali's can be ear piercingly too high and not pleasant to listen to, but at low levels very detailed.

I know that PMC's are always highly recommended, but I am worried that the bass driver is small on the PMC's and I wouldn't get the sort of bass that I'm looking for, particularly in my circumstances i.e. the PMC's don't look like you can get a lot out of them, as they are all cabinet and not many drivers!

I don't know much about either speaker and partnering, but I really want something with a bass kick but also I don't want to loose any of the high end detail. I will probably upgrade at some point to another x-power running in mono too.

All advice appreciated!
Thanks, Alex

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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby Attonine » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:32 pm

If my memory is not playing tricks in me, two very different speakers. There is no way round this one, you’re going to have to listen for yourself, and at home, especially because of the challenges your listening room will throw out. I suspect th B&W may be a more comfortable listen.

A speaker you may want to put on your list is Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grand, I’m suggesting a pair of these because of your description of the listening space. the VAs would certainly be able to calm all those hard and reflective surfaces and can give out some serious welly in the bass. Dynaudio and Audiovector likewise.
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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby callen24 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 pm

I would do something else first.
Id get another x-power, or swop for a pair of mono x.
Why?
Speakers appear to be the way to get a different sound signature. You'd need to know whether you like either of the sound signatures of these two speakers. To be sure you need to do alot of listening, ideally in your home room.

My suggestion of an extra x-power will just give you more detail, better quality bass, bigger volume of bass. And the sound will just be a better version of what you already have.
And DIY sound treatment, like thick curtains might be something worth investigating.
Do you live near a dealer who will give you a home demo of these 2 speakers, as your room has very specific characteristics?

and Id be interested to know what speaker cable you are using?
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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby argustimewas » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:43 pm

As usual Chris offers good advice worth considering.
Last edited by argustimewas on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby phlppip » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:55 am

Good advice indeed.

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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby angelface » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:25 am

I think you should consider 3 things in addition to your speakers

1) Mono X might give you more bass than a single X power
2) Maximising absorption with soft furnishings and may be a couple of sound panels behind the speakers (I am assuming you have speakers near a solid wall rather than the glass ones).
3) Careful selection of speaker cable (QED and Chord to be avoided)

Both PMC and B&W might give you more of what you want than Dali Ikon's. Howeevr bass is more than the size and number of bass drivers. PMC have a transmission tunnels that give more bass then you would think. B&W tweeters can be bright too. Of course getting home démos would be ideal.
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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby zippy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:31 am

callen24 wrote:I would do something else first.
Id get another x-power, or swop for a pair of mono x.
Why?
Speakers appear to be the way to get a different sound signature. You'd need to know whether you like either of the sound signatures of these two speakers. To be sure you need to do alot of listening, ideally in your home room.

My suggestion of an extra x-power will just give you more detail, better quality bass, bigger volume of bass. And the sound will just be a better version of what you already have.
And DIY sound treatment, like thick curtains might be something worth investigating.
Do you live near a dealer who will give you a home demo of these 2 speakers, as your room has very specific characteristics?

and Id be interested to know what speaker cable you are using?


I agree with the premise - in my experience a good power amp can make a big difference to the quality of the sound, whereas often speakers make more difference, as callen says, to the sound signature.
Personally I don't particularly like either PMC or B&W anyway !
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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby Ives » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:33 am

I don't have any experience with PMC so I can't help you there.
However I have heard transmission speakers play before and agree with Angelface that they are capable of amazing bass output related to the speaker size.

I do own B&W 685's and B&W804 d2's.
In my experience it is advisable to stay away from the silver speakerwires and go for the copper ones as silver tends to brighten the tweeter of the B&W's which is IMHO not advisable when partnered with Cyrus amps.
At least, thats what my ears think of it.

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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby jules » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:37 am

I would echo the power amp upgrade and Dynaudio option... e.g.

http://www.hifi-forsale.co.uk/moreinfo7 ... io&offset=
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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby MiniCoupeman » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:20 am

All good advice but.....ROOM FIRST,KIT SECOND. It won't matter how much money or kit you throw at your hi fi, unless you treat the acoustics first you will never get what you want. Investigate acoustic solutions first.

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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby hifinutt » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:21 pm

i have looked at the cm10 a good number of times in the last 2 months as they have been at superb prices . however they will depreciate rapidly with the advent of the new carbon tweeter 700 series .

having heard these [3 of the top models ] they sound lovely and that tweeter is sweet . one thing with B&w is they are always in demand . used to have 804s which was lovely but outwitted by focal 1028be

for the same price as a cm10s2 you can get a proac dt8 in real wood . in fact they look lovely and sound great . 2k is good value for british made speaker .

i am not a fan of pmc so can`t comment

i am using some fine b&w 603 s2 standmounts at the moment , they can get a little shouty at higher volumes on some tracks but they are great value . my money would be on the 700 series rather than the cm10
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Alex Mc
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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby Alex Mc » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:53 pm

Thanks everybody for your replies, gives me a lot to think about.

I currently have the speakers bi-wired as that was a huge improvement over single. One set of cables have no name on them. I got them from Sevenoaks a few years back. I can only describe them as beige colour rubber, very flexible and copper. The other pair are probably not appropriate at all - they are QED xt400.

Can anybody recommend any sensibly priced cables that may help?

In terms of power amp, which is superior; the mono x or x power?

Thanks
Alex

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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby wyjsar » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:03 pm

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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby callen24 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:01 pm

Alex Mc wrote:Thanks everybody for your replies, gives me a lot to think about.

I currently have the speakers bi-wired as that was a huge improvement over single. One set of cables have no name on them. I got them from Sevenoaks a few years back. I can only describe them as beige colour rubber, very flexible and copper. The other pair are probably not appropriate at all - they are QED xt400.

Can anybody recommend any sensibly priced cables that may help?

In terms of power amp, which is superior; the mono x or x power?

Thanks
Alex

i don't think their is anything wrong with xt400, i think people are referring to other stuff. have you every switched round? does it sound different?
if you haven't tried it, i suggest you do.

reading previous opinions - some people prefer two x-powers in mono, others a pair of mono x. The key thing is that a pair on x powers, in mono ,will sound much better than a single xpower. Adding another x power seems the cheapest option, usually available for around £500 s/h
cyrus stream X2, CDi, Oppo HA-1SE, IMFs, mfa Baby classicV2, Mono X300,  VA Beethoven Baby Grand
ML binarystar digital, DenchXLR, RFCneptune RCA, VanDamme OFC spk cable. AG 500 ac regenerator and Townsend Seismic sink stand.
rega P3-24, psu, AT95e/paratrace, Clearaudio nano, Project RCM

Alex Mc
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Re: Which speakers - PMC or B&W?

Postby Alex Mc » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:58 am

I've found the name of the other cables that I'm using - Van den hul cs122 hybrid