I'm having a bit of a moment...

regarding Cyrus products and other hifi related threads
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BigFatGaz
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I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby BigFatGaz » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:53 pm

Hi All,

I'm newly registered to CU having enjoyed reading some of the threads in here, time to say Hello!

I hope this is the right forum for this: I have recently acquired a second X-Power and gone from Bi-Amping my 8 XPd Qx / X-Power to using both X-Powers in mono config. My question is this: the sound has gone from being rich in bass to being quite bright to my ears. That said, I can definitely hear (and place) more of whats going on in the recording, it surely has become more detailed. Never having had access to decent HiFi in the past I kind of feel that I might have taken a backward step in losing the warmth of the music in favour of clarity. Is this something that others out there have had when upgrading their systems? For those of you out there that have been on the upgrade path, do any of you remember thinking something similar?

Thanks

Gaz
CDt | Stream XP2 Qx | PSX-R | Twin X Powers | Mac Mini (VLC player with VLC remote on Nexus 7) | Ruark Talisman IIs

mojo
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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby mojo » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:50 pm

Hello Gaz - I've experimented a bit in the past using Cyrus stereo amps in mono (bridged) mode, and I confess I was not that keen on the result - though I never figured out why. It may be that this mode of operation adds a tiny element of crossover distortion that you don't get in stereo mode, or it may be something else (or indeed it may have been my imagination!).

One thing to check though: Are you certain that you haven't got one channel reverse connected (i.e. 180 degrees out of phase with the other)? Connected like that you will often find that the bass goes almost absent, while the higher frequencies tend to stay almost as they were.

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border
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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby border » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:08 am

Trust your ears and always go with the presentation that you like rather than the one that people tell you is better.
At one time I had Cyrus Mono`s but found that I did not like the presentation as much as my previous set up.
In fact looking back over all of my many systems the one that I liked most of all was a dad3q24 into a III bi amped with an XPA and then into Epos M12.2`s and also Totem Arro`s.

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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby callen24 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:10 am

i had quite a lot of experience with bi amping before i switched to mono operation with a pair of smart powers.
When i did this the outputs i was supposed to use seemed counter intuitive, so probably worth rechecking.
Also as others have said, trying biamping with 2 xpowers, stick with it, if you like it.
But you will need an addition rca cable to do this.
But it might also be a case of adjusting to a different sound, maybe give it a few days?
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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby BigFatGaz » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:01 pm

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the replies. I think I should amend the word moment in the title to read journey.
I've spent a fair bit of time listening this weekend to a variety of CDs ;) . I've also had a chance to compare different setups. @callen24, I have just come from a bi-amp situation with the 8XPd + X-power, yesterday I ran the twin X-power approach in bi-amp - there was a slight difference in as much as it is quieter in it's delivery, I needed to give a bit more volume to achieve the same sound level. Good job I had a spare pair of interconnects lying around ;D But I missed the extra detail that the mono setup gave.
@mojo, I can get why you weren't keen on the mono mode, initially when I listened it came across as bright. Regarding the checking of the wiring, I do wonder you know if I had slipped up somewhere. But with the constant flicking between bi-amp and mono this morning / afternoon, I wonder if I have now got it right as it does sound a better.
@border About trusting my ears and going with the presentation that I like? I find myself keep going back to mono even though initially I thought it was bright. I find myself hearing odd bits that I'd not picked up in the past. So despite the warmth of the bass I had previously loved, I am loving the clarity that the extra X-Power brings.
It's almost like I've stood back from the presentation (because the volume has decreased) but I'm hearing that much more detail in doing so, and I'm loving it!
CDt | Stream XP2 Qx | PSX-R | Twin X Powers | Mac Mini (VLC player with VLC remote on Nexus 7) | Ruark Talisman IIs

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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby UKpaul » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:45 pm

I agree with 'border', always trust what you hear.

I had a dealer come out to my home once simply because he didn't believe the results I was hearing with his speaker recommendation for my kit, when set up in my room.

It just didn't matter to me that they sounded marvellous in his showroom, I bought them for my living room and in my living room they sounded completely different driven by almost exactly the same kit.

I often wonder with mono set ups how anyone can be 100% sure exactly the same output and sonic signature is getting to each speaker, bearing in mind the amount of discrepancy there is in gear when measured. But I guess you could just as easily have mismatched speakers, and a stereo amp that outputs slightly more on one channel anyway.. I spend too much time wondering :)

I'm glad it seams to be working out well for you given a bit of time to adjust.

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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby BigFatGaz » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:23 pm

UKpaul wrote:I often wonder with mono set ups how anyone can be 100% sure exactly the same output and sonic signature is getting to each speaker, bearing in mind the amount of discrepancy there is in gear when measured. But I guess you could just as easily have mismatched speakers, and a stereo amp that outputs slightly more on one channel anyway.. I spend too much time wondering :).


Hi Paul,
Normally I would agree with you but I took the advice of the other guys here and tried a few differing setups (checking connections) and trusting my ears. I've used the monos in both L & R positions and different interconnects, I would say the sound was the same with both. Not very scientific I know but not noticeable.

I note with interest your issues with your room, I've read too many posts on here about rooms, layouts, furnishings etc to ignore that - or so I thought. Writing this I realise my room is 5.5m x 4.75m in painted plaster walls and bifold doors down the whole shortest wall with next to nothing in it. My speakers are 4.5m apart. Maybe I was worrying unnecessarily about my electronics and not seeing the obvious problem?
CDt | Stream XP2 Qx | PSX-R | Twin X Powers | Mac Mini (VLC player with VLC remote on Nexus 7) | Ruark Talisman IIs

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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby UKpaul » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:46 pm

Hi BFG :) .. After my first entry level Kef Coda 7 SE speakers I was desperate to have some bigger floor standers. At the time we had a fairly large living room. I went from speaker to speaker for about two years, Monitor Audio/Kef/Mission until I found that a good quality pair of accurate small stand mounts often tend to image better.

I guess It's all about what rocks your boat, I know some people want to really feel the room shake, but I'm much more into realism, imaging, and a sense that I'm in the mix, or in the studio as it was being mixed. So I ended up back where I started with a stand mount. ( only a better one ).

Sometimes the best things happen accidentally, Once I had all of my components plugged into multi plugs behind the hifi unit. I knew it wasn't ideal but I couldn't justify the cost of power conditioning accessories. My wife unplugged everything when I was at work one day, moved the unit out to hoover behind it, and plugged everything back in differently, The Arcam integrated amp ended up at the wall socket, it was on a multiplug for months before that.

The next time I played a cd, I thought.. Heyyyy... this sounds good. ( obvious really ). There was a noticeable improvement in the ambient detail, in reviews they would say something like a 'blacker' background and noise floor. It was a huge surprise at the time, that it could make so much difference. I may have been prepared to be more careful about where things were getting their power from with high end equipment, but I didn't even consider it would be noticeable on entry level gear.

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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby BigFatGaz » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:50 am

Hi Paul,
I reckon I'm lucky on the power front because when my extension was built (where my hifi is), I allowed extra sockets in the wall so every component has its own wall socket. I'll be gutted if that proves not to be the best option if I have to stare at a load of empty sockets afterwards ;D ;D
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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby MartinK » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:21 am

I too have 2 x X-Power in Bi-Amp mode.
I tried them in Mono, but preferred the sound in Bi-Amp

If I had a chance, I would like to try with a PSX-R. I am sure I remember reading that a PSX-R when using the X-Power in Mono mode gives more output?

Aha - found it in the manual:

Output Power Stereo (Internal PSU) .... 6 Ohms ......... 100W
Output Power Mono (Internal PSU) ..... 6 Ohms ......... 181W
Output Power Mono (with PSX-R)........ 6 Ohms ......... 178W


The manual would suggest that a PSXR makes a difference in MONO...Wonder how it improves the sound? I guess the PSX has little benefit in Bi-Amp then?

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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby phlppip » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:56 am

I must admit I had a similar dilemma several years ago but settled for 2 x Powers in Mono both with a PSXR attached which I found worked best on my system, but this was mainly due to the extra power this provided to drive the SCM40 speakers. You just have to try each option (for a long enough period maybe a week each) then decide what YOU prefer.

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Re: I'm having a bit of a moment...

Postby BigFatGaz » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:29 pm

I think after a couple of weeks I'm getting used to the clarity of the sound, even if it was (to my ears) a little bright to start with. I picked up a cheap PSX-R and put it on the 8Xpd to see what would happen. First CD goes in, Whooooaaa what a difference! So the warmth that I like has come back in buckets but the clarity remains! Happy days!

I think the new setup reveals more of what goes on in a recording. Some tracks are poor and thready, it's not the hifi - it's the recording. I now wonder what the engineer and producer were thinking. With others, the recordings show detail I'd never heard before. they are rich and plentiful and I can actually place where things are. It has totally reinvigorated my interest in a lot of music for sure.
CDt | Stream XP2 Qx | PSX-R | Twin X Powers | Mac Mini (VLC player with VLC remote on Nexus 7) | Ruark Talisman IIs