New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

regarding Cyrus products and other hifi related threads
Hifihelp
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:17 pm

New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby Hifihelp » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:33 pm

I’m wanting to move my system into the next century so to speak. Currently have a full cyrus signature system and pmc twenty5 series speakers.

I’m giving the innuos Zenith mark 2 a go as I’m really attracted to a designated ssd hard drive, with buffering memory playback, Roon intergration and cd ripping too. I’ve also heard the innuos is a fantastic source and probably a lot better than the stream x signature.

So I’m trialling the innuos soon and my dealer has recommended changing the dac and pre to make it usb input compatible from the innuos (you can only use Roon with innuos usb output and apparently it’s a lot better as a transport into a usb dac then as a server using Ethernet into a streamer like the cyrus stream x sig).

I don’t think the dacs on the dac xp signature are that fantastic but obviously it’s power supplies are great. I’m keeping my mono x200sig power amps. My dealer has said a good upgrade would be something like the Mytek Brooklyn DAC our benchmark dac3hgc around the £2k price point. Do you think the innuos will work better into a usb dac (dac xp sig doesn’t have usb in). At present I’ve had to buy a cheap m2tech hiface2 converter so I can use Roon and then go into the digital input of the dac xp sig. I’m slightly dubious the Mytek or benchamark would be an improvement as a lower price to the best cyrus Pre dac but I think this cyrus pre is quite old now, and the benchmark and Mytek do use fantastic ess sabre dacs, it’s reputed. Plus they are balanced designs and dual mono like the cyrus. Is it worth the upgrade.

Sorry a bit of a ramble but it’s quite a complicated one. Am grateful of any input. Many thanks

User avatar
angelface
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 1910
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:00 pm

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby angelface » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:49 pm

I would consider Chord DACs if buying new. S/H I would consider Bel Canto DACs but you will need a Reflink to give you USB input.

Most DACs have high voltage outputs so why not get a passive pre? The MF pre will be a step up from Cyrus pre but might not work well if you have a turntable.
CDXTSE2/PSX-R(Nordost Silver Line)BC DAC3.7/VBL(Atlas Navigator)MF Baby Mk2(Atlas Navigator)2xMonoX(Coherent 4D)WB Arc
HUMAX Freesat+/Sony BDPS280>AVMaster8 and SP+>Spendor C5e>> Monitor Audio RXW12 sub>>4xSpendor SR5

User avatar
zippy
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 1114
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 2:16 pm
Location: Northumberland, U.K.

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby zippy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:30 pm

having listened to a few streamers, I doubt you'll notice any difference there.
The PRE/DAC is a different story and I'm considering one day to upgrade those myself, probably to Brystons.
Win10 PC with Asset UPnP server/BubbleUPnP app on Android tablet
AG1500 regenerator/StreamXSig->DAC XPSig(with PSX-R2)->Bryston 4BSST2->KEF Reference 3~2

User avatar
phlppip
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 1164
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:51 pm
Location: Huntingdon - Cambridgeshire

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby phlppip » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:12 pm

The first place I would start is upgrading the MonoX200s to 300s as this will make a massive difference. Then look at the DAC once the rest of the components are up to par otherwise you will not reap the rewards of a new DAC.

Hifihelp
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:17 pm

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby Hifihelp » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:44 pm

I don’t think the mono x200signatures are a let down against x300 signatures. Only slight difference to x300 with my speakers. Don’t want more bass slam too.

Just looking at a better dac and pre together for reasons of a change with decent usb dac etc.

Update ; also that if you use the dac xp signature as the pre and add on better dacs it’s probably an expensive way around things, so I’m thinking better to change the dac xp signature to a similar balanced device with upgraded dacs.

I do think zippy that less noise of the innuos over usb may be a plus for sound quality, because I don’t like the idea of plugging routers and nas drives into the cyrus stream x signature, for all that noise to degrade sound quality. I’m thinking with the solid state drives of innuos and its buffering from memory, it will be a much better streaming source.

callen24
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 3158
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:39 am
Location: lesta

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby callen24 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:44 pm

make sure you get long home trials
cyrus stream X2, CDi, Oppo HA-1SE, IMFs, mfa Baby classicV2, NORD OneUP, VA Beethoven Baby Grand
ML binarystar digital, DenchXLR, RFCneptune RCA, VanDamme OFC spk cable. AG 500 ac regenerator and Townsend Seismic sink stand.
rega P3-24, psu, AT95e/paratrace, Clearaudio nano, Project RCM

Ianmac
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 975
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:17 am
Location: Ayrshire Scotland

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby Ianmac » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:50 pm

I moved from Cyrus to Benchmark some years ago.
Im currently using a DAC1HDR and a DAC2 HGC. They are superbly built and have a technical performance to match. I was attracted to them having used Benchmark equipment in a previous life and it was one of the few DACs which offered an analogue input as well as the usual SPDIF/Optical and USB, so a functional route to get analogue into my system without a full blown pre amp.
I use my DAC2 with a DIY CAPS 3 streamer and use asynchronous usb. The DAC2 was the first model with USB type 2. I find USB async an improvement over std USB , your dealer should be able to demo that for you and advise you of the benefits.
I also use the balanced outputs to drive my amps and the user tweakable attenuator to match amplifier gain- again your dealer should advise.
Avoid SPDIF to USB adaptors
Its difficult to comment on the advantages (if any) of using a SSD. My CAPS3 steamer uses a solid state drive powered from a clean Linear supply, built because I though the same as you. Im currently building new "renderer" which is streaming from the hard drives on my old tranquil NAS and it outperforms my CAPS3. Its a minefield!

good hunting re dacs and pre
Sytem 1.
Engineered SA-NMR Renderer (Ianmac PSU) :BelCanto CD-2: Technics 1200 (Ianmac Bearing + Ianmac PSU+Ianmac arm): DACT-Ianmac phono pre >Benchmark DAC2 HGC>2*Ianmac-Hypex NCore monos> ATCSCM40 : Ianmac filters
System 2
Engineered SA-NMR Renderer (Ianmac PSU) :Benchmark DAC1.Sony CDP D11 pro: 2*-Hypex Ncore monos: Kef ref1-2.
IMF's

Hifihelp
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:17 pm

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby Hifihelp » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:02 pm

Thanks Ian. Was the benchmark dac much better than cyrus stuff you had. What did you replace the benchmark with Cyrus wise. On usb, what’s the different types - asynchronous, usb1 and 2. I think the basic cyrus usb input on the stream x Signature is just usb1.0 which I think means it doesn’t pass through to the dac. You just get the folder structure of the drive eg iPods etc. Asynchronous must pass through by what asynchronous means in the dac commanding packets of data, but what is usb 2.0 for purposes of hi Fi and on the benchmark.

Attonine
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:28 pm
Location: Sittingbourne, Kent

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby Attonine » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:01 am

Pre/DAC I say look at Chord and Benchmark. Similar prices and easy to get hold of. Will just depend on your specific connection requirements and whether one has a preferable sound to the other for you.

Streamer/transport. I wouldn’t know where to begin now. This field is becoming a nighmare with so many choices and moving so fast. Yesterdays £3000 line is beat by today’s £300 DIY kit. Others on the forum, and a little bit of searching will give you much better advice.

Amps, no brainier, NORD. Job done!
Auralic Aries; Chord Hugo TT; Audeze LCD 2

Ianmac
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 975
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:17 am
Location: Ayrshire Scotland

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby Ianmac » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:08 am

The Benchmark DAC1 was to my ears far superior to the Cyrus DacXp I had at the time. It confirmed the technical spec published by benchmark. (Cyrus did not publish a full tech spec that one could use for comparison)
If you go to the benchmark website you can download the manual for all of their DACs. They give you FULL technical and operational info.

Ill try and explain Audio USB 1 Synchronous Mode and Audio USB 2 Asyncronous Mode.

Syncronous mode is a one way digital connection for transfering data from the PC (Streamer) to the USB device (DAC). The Computer is the MASTER CLOCK for playback and determines the playback timing.The Computer and USB timing is not nearly accuratate enough for Hi Fi playback.

The PC ( streaming device) is pushing poorly timed data into the DAC

Asyncronous mode is a two way communication method between the PC (Streamer) and external device (DAC). In this mode the DAC is MASTER CLOCK and the and the PC (Streamer) is a slave that delivers data only when requested by the DAC. The Data timing is referenced to a very accurate clock in the DAC which eliminates the timing errors (Jitter) caused by the PC (streamer) hardware and software. This method allows for superior playback performance when compared with USB 1.
The DAC will have an internal memory buffer which by controlling the USB transmission it ensures never gets empty during playback.

The DAC is Pulling data from the Streaming device to an accurate timing reference from its own hi spec timing clock.

USB 1 works and is acceptable to some on low sample rate files like CD quality 16/44. To try and sell more little boxes some suppliers offer boxes that reclock the USB signal to improve the timing accuracy before its presented to the DAC.
USB 2 will work in tru Hi Fi mode with all of the sample rates we are likely to use circa 24/192 and higher and with DSD ( which I havent played with to date)
Hope this helps you
Sytem 1.
Engineered SA-NMR Renderer (Ianmac PSU) :BelCanto CD-2: Technics 1200 (Ianmac Bearing + Ianmac PSU+Ianmac arm): DACT-Ianmac phono pre >Benchmark DAC2 HGC>2*Ianmac-Hypex NCore monos> ATCSCM40 : Ianmac filters
System 2
Engineered SA-NMR Renderer (Ianmac PSU) :Benchmark DAC1.Sony CDP D11 pro: 2*-Hypex Ncore monos: Kef ref1-2.
IMF's

Hifihelp
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:17 pm

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby Hifihelp » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:20 am

Very much helps. Thank you!

If a downgrade in price terms gets me better sound quality with the benchmark 3dac hgc, and innuos then it will be great.

I still love the cyrus sound and am not slating it but it will be good to go on a journey to see if better sound can be achieved with not quite so well known makes and for less. I’m pretty sure it’s the dac tech to a large degree that determines sound quality, and the cyrus dacs in the dac xp signature are quite old now.

broowin
Jr. Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 7:23 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: New pre and streamer - replacing cyrus?

Postby broowin » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:51 pm

Speaking as a convert to Mytek from Cyrus I can only say I am not disappointed in having made what was a dramatic move after 30 years of allegiance to Cyrus.
I have used Elite audio in Scotland all done by email and postage never visited there but they have not let me down on the changes they suggested
(They recommended using the fidelizer power supply with the Zen mini rather than using the more expensive Zen which worked out cheaper and they say sounds better - I was prepared to spend the extra...)

They have also taken on Burson which is even cheaper than the Brooklyn but seems to be getting their endorsement (Elites) may be worth trying their 30 day approval service.
Innuos Zen mini + Fidelizer Nikola
Mytek Brooklyn DAC + Fidelizer Nikola
2 x Mytek Brooklyn Amps bridged
Thorens TD 160 plus Goldring 1042 - Assorted cabling,
Boenicke W8 speakers
Audeze LCD 3 Headphones

Croft Vitale used as phono amp