Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

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madaboutlawns
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Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby madaboutlawns » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:38 pm

Hi,
I've been reading the forum for quite a while but this is my first post.
I've bought a Stereo 200 power amp and I'm using it with Dali opticom 8 speakers.
They say they can play up to 112db and take an amp up to 300w.

Here goes, I sometimes like things loud, so when listening to tracks like queen - we will rock you or dire straights money for nothing, when I crank it up the amp turns itself off and flashes green and orange.
I've got a free spl meter db app on my iphone and it reads 115db when the amp switches off.

I want to know if I buy a pair of mono x300 sig's
1, Will they sound better?
2, Will they go a lot louder - my main reason for wanting to upgrade?

It might sound like a silly question but am I reaching the limits of my amp or my speakers? I presume it's the amp, I feel like the speakers have a little more to give.

Any help will be appreciated, thank you
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby callen24 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:21 pm

it might be useful to know which pre you are using?
where on the dial is your pre 11oclock, 1 o'clock ?
i suspect your speakers could do with a better amp, but i'm also suspecting you might have the same problem.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby madaboutlawns » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:31 pm

Thank you for your reply.

I'm using a cambridge audio cxn streamer as the pre amp.
I'm using the streamer and amp in balanced xlr mode.
The cxn volume control goes from 0 to 30.
The amp cuts out at around 26.

I'm just on the cusp of having enough volume - a tad more and I'll be where I want to be with it.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby callen24 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:50 pm

Di you get this set up from Richer?
Have you discussed this with your local dealer, what did they say?
I suggest you don't use more than 22 of the 30, so that you don't damage your amp/speakers
Is it incredibly loud?
Are you in a very large room?

Without having an technical expertise I think you should take into account 2 things
1. Just because a car can do 140mph it doesn't mean it can do 130 mph all day.
2. when you have it at that volume it really cant accommodate the varying volume in a piece of music.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby simbo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:12 pm

It could be a gain issue. I ran a Marantz amp as a pre into a 6 power and it caused the 6 power to cut out when the volume was turned up - though I rarely had it as loud as it looks like the op.

When the juice from the pre it too great for the amp, the amp protection circuits cut in. However, this is unlikely to be resolved for the op simply by getting a matching pre as there will be less voltage going into the amp so not as loud either

More sensitive speakers might seem a logical step as they create more dB/watt. However, I found when running 98dB/Watt speakers that it was micro-dynamics that improved, not macro and it certainly wasn't any louder, just more nuanced reproduction.

For those SPLs a PA rig sounds like a better option.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby madaboutlawns » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:27 pm

I was going to buy the Cyrus pre dac 2 streamer but found the cxn on the way to the shop, and as it has xlr, I opted for that instead.
Only the cxn is from RS.
I think as time goes on, I'll start picking up a full signature system as I see them advertised at good used prices.

It's interesting as simbo has mentioned using a pa system.
This is the volume levels and sheer force of sound I'm trying to reproduce. I had a pa system when I was a lot younger and dance music such as run dmc vs jason nevis used to kick you in the stomach and wind you.
My system approaches this level at the higest volume.

The room is quite small, say 9m x 6m.

I listened to a customers setup of mine.
He has a large set of quad speakers powered with a Cambridge research valve amp.
The sound from his setup haunts me as it sounds like the musicians are in the room.
Also, I listen to a lot of live jazz and blues bands.
What I'm really trying to achieve is the recreation of the drums, guitars and sax to a volume that they sound live.

Thanks Callen24, I was wondering if a little more elbow room might help.
I'd hate to have to replace the speakers as well as things might start getting a bit costly.
This is why I'm wondering if pair of mono x300 sigs will have a better grip of my speakers and possibly reach a higher volume?
I'm getting a little older now and so I do have a more refined music taste but every now and again, I just get the urge to be a bit of an animal.
The other thing is, the mono x300's have created a bit of an itch that I just have to scratch, but I don't want to be disappointed.

The large quad electrostatics are giving me the same itch, although I may try listening to a pair of used Martin Logan's first in a bit to save a few £££'s.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby callen24 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:17 pm

I cant see that x300s will give you what you want. They are not cheap.
I think 6m x 9m is quite a big room. I cant remember many dealers having a demo room that big, except for AV
A few suggestion for you to think about

so short term
I would go to Richers sounds. They have a monster power amp to match your streamer.
Ask for a demo with your speakers ( they stock them).
The least you will get from this will be information that your system can go as loud as you want it to.
And they know about their own gear. They might have useful advice

longer term
Left field suggestion - 2 systems
1. PA levels might be achievable with something like EVENT OPALS, or other active speakers - I 've read that a few people run them with dac/streamers, with a volume control
2. Second system with valves , maybe something like that being sold by simbo recently - even with quad electrostatics, or some other small classic. Your current speakers are not easy to drive
All this would cost less than x300s
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby madaboutlawns » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:01 pm

Yes, I think your right.

It never crossed my mind.
I really like the sound of a pa system to give me the thumping thunder and wall of sound.
Also the idea of a more detailed system with valves appeals to me as well.

What was you referring to when you said something like what simbo recently sold.

I am very grateful for the advice and suggestions.

I've been out of the hifi world since the 90's, I had a few bose surround systems and a b&o beosound 9000 for a while but wasn't really listening to much.

Now I've opened a door again, I guess I'm going to have the put in the hours of effort to start listening to some equipment before just buying it from spec sheets and a couple of reviews and thinking that it'll do the job.

RS sounds like a good place to start and test their amp with my kit, like you said, just so I know.
Looks like I might have to start moving my kit onwards and replace a few things.

I really thought that the x300s was going to be the answer,, I'll still listen to a pair, but I'm glad I didn't just jump right in and could still have the same problems.

I just want to add that I know nothing about valve amps.
Where to start, what power output etc?


Thanks
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby callen24 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:34 pm

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=31424
i know nothing about valves either, but your friend does

i think x300 will sound great, but you specifically are asking for a high volume, they don't guarantee that
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby julianh » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:28 am

callen24 wrote:http://www.rdhworld.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=31424
i know nothing about valves either, but your friend does

i think x300 will sound great, but you specifically are asking for a high volume, they don't guarantee that


One thing to remember though is that if you’re after that thundering bass and the sharp crack you get from snare drums in a live oerformance then you’re very unlikely to get that from recorded media no matter what hardware you have. CDs and vinyl just aren’t mixed and mastered that way.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby angelface » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:36 am

Wow that is a BIG room.

I am not a fan of subs (my sub doesn't match the quality of my speakers) but perhaps you should consider a quality sub (or two) to get that thumping bass when you are in the mood. The rest of the time leave the sub swicthed off.

Big floor standers from the likes of PMC (fact 12 perhaps) , ATC or B&W (big 800 series often sell cheap s/h as only work well in big rooms) might also achieve this of course.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby Attonine » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:16 am

Hmmm, PA system in your lounge.....not sure about that. The only thing running through my mind as I read this thread is hearing loss. That’s loud. By law, if you were working in that environment you would have to use ear defenders.

As previously mentioned, the kit your using at the limits you are using it, is not giving much headway at all for peaks and troughs In the music. The only kit I’ve heard which gives what I think you are after is a wall of Wilson speakers hooked up to some D’agostino power amps. That really did sound like being in the middle of a concert. Stupid money though.

You’ve mentioned you’d like a full signature system. Yes, they’re nice, but I think, without much effort, you can do better, if you can live with an aesthetically miss matched system. At the moment I think you need to spend a lot of time auditioning speakers. Get these right and the rest will fall into place more easily.

PMC fact series are worth a look. Some of the larger ATCs can be had for a bargain, you room could easily take the 100’s or 150’s. Wilson occasionally turn up on the used market at more realistic prices. I’m sure there are a lot more, but the scale yo7 are playing with is beyond my remit :D . For more loudness on the amp side I guess you’re going to have to look across the Atlantic at some of the American manufacturers, they tend to make LOUD more than the Europeans.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby zippy » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:44 am

Nobody but Attonine seems to have mentioned this yet, and I don't want to be a spoil sport, but seems to me 115Db as measured (presumably from your listening position) is incredibly loud and you run a real risk of hearing damage let alone damaging the amp and/or speakers.
I believe anything over 85 dB is classed as potentially harmful.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby Attonine » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:50 am

zippy wrote:Nobody but Attonine seems to have mentioned this yet, and I don't want to be a spoil sport, but seems to me 115Db as measured (presumably from your listening position) is incredibly loud and you run a real risk of hearing damage let alone damaging the amp and/or speakers.
I believe anything over 85 dB is classed as potentially harmful.

Yup. At 85 dB you must be provided ear protection and use them or get off site - no arguing with the boss it’s as simple as that. And exposure is also time limited. 80 dB ear protection must be provided but it’s up to you if you use it.

If you don’t think it’s serious, consider that the gvmt has a compensation fund for hearing loss due to noisy work environments, this puts hearing loss at the same level as asbestosis.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby phlppip » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:12 pm

x300s will most certainly sound much better, and have more than enough power on tap.