Room Acoustic Treatment

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angelface
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Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby angelface » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:08 am

When I had my main system in the lounge I managed to negociate the following treatment

1200x600 GIK 244 Bass trap horizontal behind TV and thus between speakers
Foam in picture frame behind an oil painting behind the settee we use for watching TV

Now I have a dedicated listening room but it is much smaller. Sounded dreadful until I placed Bass trap behind my head.
Two more 1200x600 GIK 244 Bass traps were purchased and postioned behind speakers and towards centre so absorbing first reflections off back wall. This improved imaging and bass.

Latest purchase was two 600x600 GIK 244 panels that bridge rear corners. On some quieter tracks in feels if bass is a bit missing but with rock music the drums and bass guitar are really clear.

I have no treatment on ceiling but this is high compared with my distance from speakers. I have no treatment on side walls but again these are far enough away compared from my speaker distance.

Overall I am very happy with sound so far.

Can I recommend GIK seconds that appear most weeks on ebay if like me you love a bargain?
Last edited by angelface on Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby hifinutt » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:32 pm

thanks for update stephen , i went to a lecture on this subject by the boss of GIK recently
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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby Starwarsmike2422 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:45 pm

Well done. I still cannot believe how much a difference they have made to the sound. Huge upgrade. I used Alpha panels on side walls for reflection points & GIK 242 for ceiling.
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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby madaboutlawns » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:27 pm

I'm quite new to room treatments, I have watched over a dozen youtube videos.
How do you know if you need it?
I'm guessing it's when you can hear an over powering boom from the bass?

Also what do the panels look like inside, is it flat absorbing material inside a frame or is it some type of tunnel system with sound absorbing material that sends the bass on a journey?
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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby Starwarsmike2422 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:23 am

Hi Madaboutlawns

before I installed GIK panels, I knew nothing about them, if you go to GIK website they have great section for learning what each panel does. Not all panels are for absorbing, look at reflection points.

With regards to your question how do you know if you need them, installing acoustic treatment will improve your sound “full stop”, if you email GIK & give your room size/position etc, they will recommend what to get. The good thing is you can start with a few panels & increase from there. What size of room do you have? & where is your listening position.

GIK might want you to analyse your room using a mic & raw software. It will give them the detail they need to advise what panels you need. I’ll lend you the mic if you want, just pay for postage. Cost me £150, so worth getting a lend from me.

Cheers

Michael
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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby caine » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:27 am

If you really want to get your head around acoustics then get the book Master Handbook of Acoustics (6th edition); heavy going.

GIK video's and tutorials are very useful. Its pretty straight forward stuff at a cursory view for what your looking for. Once you start getting into the specific problems such as the orders of reflections, etc down the rabbit hole you go. Explain the issues and give drawings or measurement readings, contact them for exactly what they need to assist; until you buy its no obligation.

I've gone down the absorption route with a mix of scatter panels (simple form of diffusion) too keep the sound livened. You can absorb anything, but you steal the energy completely if you go to far. I've gone to the nth degree and currently have 18 panels. But I've been dealing with reflection points and the issues after soundproofing a room.

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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby angelface » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:25 am

hifinutt wrote:thanks for update stephen , i went to a lecture on this subject by the boss of GIK recently


Only thing I am not convinced by that GIK say is the idea of speakers against the wall if you have sound panels behind.
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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby madaboutlawns » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:41 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the advice and help.
Thank you starwarsmike2422 for the offer to borrow your mike and also thanks to caine for the info on the book.
I think I might start off with trying to get to grips with the book first.
I think I can see the rabbit hole, but I'll have to put it on hold for a short while.
My wife and I have just found out that we're having twins. So I'm a little tied up with things at the minute.
As we've already got 2 little ones I'm spending my free time trawling the internet looking for viano or v class to transport us all around in.
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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby tock » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:39 am

Like angelface I picked a couple of bargains from gik on ebay. My main problems are the bass and sibilance.

There was one corner bass trap that was on auction that I bought which was handy as I cannot fit another one behind my right speaker. This really cleared up the bass but to be honest some select few tracks I still feel I may need another one at least. The corner bass traps really make a big difference if you have a flabby bass.

I also picked up 6 60x60 monster bass traps in 3 different colours to make it more room friendly looking. I was advised by gik last year to put 3 60x120 monster bass traps behind my sofa to help out with sibilance. So I put all 6 behind my sofa but there's a chest of drawers with a projector on top. This caused me to mount the bass traps higher than ear height and practically up to the ceiling. The sibilance was still there and I'm not sure if it's because of the height of the traps that I mounted them.

Now thankfully I bought the 60x60 sizes as I took off the 1 of the traps and sat it on my fireplace shelf along one of the side wall where the first reflection point is and that made a difference to the sibilance. Now 3 of my traps are sitting along the fireplace shelf and the last one is close to the corner which again helped out the bass as well. The overall effect is improvement in bass and sibilance but not perfect. More depth and focus now but there's less reflection so the soundsatage is in front of you instead of surrounding you and you end up turning the volume up a fair bit.

Eventually I probably have to change my speakers they're probably too big for my room and may not suit my amp but I have to admit the bass in a lot of tracks now are amazing after fitting the giks. Take what you will from my experience I am sure more knowledgeable members here will take a more experienced and scientific approach here rather than my suck it and see.

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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby angelface » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:15 pm

madaboutlawns wrote:Hi,

Thanks for the advice and help.
Thank you starwarsmike2422 for the offer to borrow your mike and also thanks to caine for the info on the book.
I think I might start off with trying to get to grips with the book first.
I think I can see the rabbit hole, but I'll have to put it on hold for a short while.
My wife and I have just found out that we're having twins. So I'm a little tied up with things at the minute.
As we've already got 2 little ones I'm spending my free time trawling the internet looking for viano or v class to transport us all around in.


I'm not sure you need pairs for best effect but I don't suppose you'll have time to read this for the next 18 years..
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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby angelface » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:17 pm

tock wrote:Eventually I probably have to change my speakers they're probably too big for my room and may not suit my amp but I have to admit the bass in a lot of tracks now are amazing after fitting the giks. Take what you will from my experience I am sure more knowledgeable members here will take a more experienced and scientific approach here rather than my suck it and see.


What speakers do you have? How big is the room?

I have not done it yet but putting 242 panels on ceiling and a thick rug on the floor might help with sibilance.
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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby tock » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:45 am

angelface wrote:
What speakers do you have? How big is the room?

I have not done it yet but putting 242 panels on ceiling and a thick rug on the floor might help with sibilance.


Sorry in not getting back earlier. The room is approx. 4m x 4.75m with 1 side wall having a sliding patio door and the other side a bricked fire place and an opening to the another living room with no door.

The floor is concrete and carpeted with a rug albeit a thin one. There is a light pendulum at the centre on the ceiling so may not be able to put a panel there but to tell you the truth wouldn't like to have one there. I might try and get some 2 second hand bass traps but are black and put them at both sides of the drawer behind my sofa so at least they will be at ear height. Not sure if they will make any difference and if not I'll end up with more panels and the room looking more like a recording studio :)

The other option is to sell the speakers and find suitable ones. The speakers I have are 804 diamonds and they were 2ndhand at a good price and I pounced on them so no home audition and the room I am in now I have just moved in. I listened to the 804 before with my devialet before in a dealers and there was no harshness or sibilance so I think it should be the room now I am not too sure.
I thought with the panels I bought that the problem will be solved but not so, it helped but not solved. Maybe floorstanders is not suitable but I like the scale which I think bookshelves cannot achieve.

I live in Ireland so waiting for suitable 2ndhand speakers will take a while unless I buy new which I prefer not and to tell you the truth right now would not know what to look for. Had a pair of castle speakers for about 2 decades and the jump in so many factors to the 804 was amazing but after the honeymoon period you start to hear the negatives as well.

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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby Ives » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:42 pm

madaboutlawns wrote:I'm quite new to room treatments, I have watched over a dozen youtube videos.
How do you know if you need it?
I'm guessing it's when you can hear an over powering boom from the bass?

Also what do the panels look like inside, is it flat absorbing material inside a frame or is it some type of tunnel system with sound absorbing material that sends the bass on a journey?


Hi,

I think there are not many rooms that don't profit from acoustical treatment.
Nevertheless I think it is safe to say that, the smaller the room, the greater the need will be.

It might not just be an over powering boom but also the lack of bass response.
It seems odd that an absorbing panel results in more bass, but when you check the physics it makes sense.
Basswaves that move from the speaker and return after hitting the back wall eleminate each other, therefor resulting in a lack of bass.

I myself invested in a rather complete "starters package", which means:
- in the corners on front wall two tri-traps
- behind each speaker a 244 panel
- in front of each speaker on the ceailing a 244 pannel
- on the first reflection on the side walls a 244 panel
- directly behind listening position two 244 panels with scatter plate.

The effect is stunning: a lot more bass, better staging.
You have never realy heard your system untill you try this.
Nevertheless I admit it is difficult to sell to your spouse installing a bunch of those panels in the living room.
Mine are installed in my listening room upstairs on my 'second' system which has no become my main system because it sounds much better than the system downstairs in the living room.

As for what is in the panels. I didn't cut one open yet, but I gather that they are stuffed with absorbing material. No tunnels as far as I know. The tri-traps on the other hand have a hollow space in them, which seems to be necessary to cope with lower frequenties.

Since I heard the effect off them panels on the SQ I have read tons of articles and installed a free measuring application on my pc to measure and optimalise even further. But I have to admit I sometimes struggle to follow the science since there is a lot of maths and physics involved.

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Re: Room Acoustic Treatment

Postby tock » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:08 am

If your main problem is bass I would suggest tri traps behind the speakers first. Keep an eye out on ebay as if you are willing to collect bargains can be had but they are usually black and can standout in the room. If you're willing to spend order from gik and choose the colour of your walls and they integrate into the room easier.