NMR Network Media Renderer

post questions / problems regarding Cyrus kit here, or any other queries of a tech nature.
User avatar
caine
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 2788
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:21 am
Contact:

NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby caine » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:32 am

Struggling to get the NMR or bridge playing music from ROON core. However no problems with it running off jriver. Jriver see's the device as Audio Renderer 19, roon see's nothing. Roon had no problems finding/playing through the SBT as an end-point.

My system is the same as the picture below (courtesy of PSaudio).

Image

I understand the differences between Jriver and ROON. Though can't see why the ROON core can't see the Network Media Renderer, but can see the SBT ?

It would be nice to run comparisons. Not sure how comparable when one will run with Jriver (may try foobar2000; wonder if anyone sorted out a decent app remote) against the SBT with ROON (which is leaps and bounds beyond Logitech Media Server).

Guide to Network Audio and PS Audio article about Fixed v Packets (source of picture).
SBT (mod) >7d coax> TAD D1000 mk.2 >5d> Belles LA01 (gen2) >5d> Marantz MA9S2 >4d> Vivid Audio B1
Townshend rack/platforms, Coherent interconnects, DIY mains. Room Conditioning.

User avatar
caine
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 2788
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:21 am
Contact:

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby caine » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:06 pm

Fear there is no solution to the renderer / roon issue. Will drop ROONlabs a call
SBT (mod) >7d coax> TAD D1000 mk.2 >5d> Belles LA01 (gen2) >5d> Marantz MA9S2 >4d> Vivid Audio B1
Townshend rack/platforms, Coherent interconnects, DIY mains. Room Conditioning.

User avatar
SimonJ
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 3322
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:35 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby SimonJ » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:31 pm

caine wrote:Fear there is no solution to the renderer / roon issue. Will drop ROONlabs a call



I am not sure it is Roon ready, not as an endpoint anyway as needs to be RAAT compliant

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Ready
Main system: GyroDec>Dynavector XX2MK2>Auralic Aries>Pimped DDDAC 1794>Coherant 4d>TE Vibe & Pulse PSU>Coherant 4D & 4D Mains>Sugden Sapphire FBA-800 & 4D Mains>Coherant 4D Speaker Cable>Focal 1028
Office - DIY System: MMStreamer>DDDAC>KT88 Valve Amp>Focal 1008

User avatar
caine
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 2788
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:21 am
Contact:

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby caine » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:21 pm

Simon, how did you have the renderer setup ?
SBT (mod) >7d coax> TAD D1000 mk.2 >5d> Belles LA01 (gen2) >5d> Marantz MA9S2 >4d> Vivid Audio B1
Townshend rack/platforms, Coherent interconnects, DIY mains. Room Conditioning.

Ianmac
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 974
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:17 am
Location: Ayrshire Scotland

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby Ianmac » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:11 pm

Sorry to read you are having a hassle with Roon.
Pity it is Easter or we could get Maro to communicate with the NMR manufacturer in Switzerland.
As you are finding it works fine on Jriver. I have never used Roon, primarily the price put me off and the marketing excercise "Roon Ready".
Ill wait to read how Simon evaluated it.

As I read the feedback, Roon will only work with equipment that incorporates the ability to work with Roon "RAAT". ie that is Roon Ready ?
Some manufacturers claim to do this as they and Roon scratch each other backs to make money ? What happens if you buy Roon and find your existing equipment is not RAAT compliant.
Sytem 1.
Engineered SA-NMR Renderer (Ianmac PSU) :BelCanto CD-2: Technics 1200 (Ianmac Bearing + Ianmac PSU+Ianmac arm): DACT-Ianmac phono pre >Benchmark DAC2 HGC>2*Ianmac-Hypex NCore monos> ATCSCM40 : Ianmac filters
System 2
Engineered SA-NMR Renderer (Ianmac PSU) :Benchmark DAC1.Sony CDP D11 pro: 2*-Hypex Ncore monos: Kef ref1-2.
IMF's

User avatar
SimonJ
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 3322
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:35 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby SimonJ » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:23 pm

Ianmac wrote:Sorry to read you are having a hassle with Roon.
Pity it is Easter or we could get Maro to communicate with the NMR manufacturer in Switzerland.
As you are finding it works fine on Jriver. I have never used Roon, primarily the price put me off and the marketing excercise "Roon Ready".
Ill wait to read how Simon evaluated it.

As I read the feedback, Roon will only work with equipment that incorporates the ability to work with Roon "RAAT". ie that is Roon Ready ?
Some manufacturers claim to do this as they and Roon scratch each other backs to make money ? What happens if you buy Roon and find your existing equipment is not RAAT compliant.



Correct Ian needs to be Roon ready meaning supporting RAAT as I see it

Caine - I never used Roon with it when it was here
Main system: GyroDec>Dynavector XX2MK2>Auralic Aries>Pimped DDDAC 1794>Coherant 4d>TE Vibe & Pulse PSU>Coherant 4D & 4D Mains>Sugden Sapphire FBA-800 & 4D Mains>Coherant 4D Speaker Cable>Focal 1028
Office - DIY System: MMStreamer>DDDAC>KT88 Valve Amp>Focal 1008

User avatar
caine
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 2788
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:21 am
Contact:

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby caine » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:37 pm

Thanks gents, that confirms what I thought. I do have jriver on my office pc / system which is on a different floor to my HiFi. Will invest in jriver remote and run the renderer that way.
SBT (mod) >7d coax> TAD D1000 mk.2 >5d> Belles LA01 (gen2) >5d> Marantz MA9S2 >4d> Vivid Audio B1
Townshend rack/platforms, Coherent interconnects, DIY mains. Room Conditioning.

User avatar
Rune
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 905
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:27 pm
Location: Copenhagen

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby Rune » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:29 pm

It looks like the NMR only supports UPnP/DLNA like most surround receives and MPD.
Here is what Roon has to say about UPnP and why they do want to support it.
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-wrong-with-upnp/2101/3?u=rugby

Ianmac wrote:Some manufacturers claim to do this as they and Roon scratch each other backs to make money ? What happens if you buy Roon and find your existing equipment is not RAAT compliant.

You can add Roon support for very little money RPI+digi IO. So that is not a problem.

The RoonReady certification is mainly for DACS+streamers in same box. I think Roon is very transparent in their marketing. It is your choice if you want to buy into high margin RoonReady hifi or build your own endpoints and servers with RoonBridge and ROCK (Roon OS) for FREE which does exactly the same as the branded boxes.
Source: Synology NAS, Intel NUC Linux RoonServer, RPI RoonBridge
DAC: Chord Hugo
Pre amp: MFA Baby Ref.
Amps: 4xHypex nCore
Speakers: Dali Epicon 8
Cables: ML Cryo Ref. XLR, Yannis RCA, Analysis plus big silver oval
AV: NAD 758 v3 (DiracLive), 5.1  B&W M-1, PV1D sub

Ianmac
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 974
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:17 am
Location: Ayrshire Scotland

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby Ianmac » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:58 pm

Rune,
Thanks for the feedback and the links.
Ill read them thoroughly
Coming from a few years with MM then Caps streamers running their local SSD/music using Jriver and Jremote UPnP DNLA is a learning curve but I have no operational issues using Jriver and Jremote with my 1st NMR.
The LINN factory is only a few miles from me so Ill be up at one of their open nights and have a chat with some of their engineers about the Linn viewpoint.
Sytem 1.
Engineered SA-NMR Renderer (Ianmac PSU) :BelCanto CD-2: Technics 1200 (Ianmac Bearing + Ianmac PSU+Ianmac arm): DACT-Ianmac phono pre >Benchmark DAC2 HGC>2*Ianmac-Hypex NCore monos> ATCSCM40 : Ianmac filters
System 2
Engineered SA-NMR Renderer (Ianmac PSU) :Benchmark DAC1.Sony CDP D11 pro: 2*-Hypex Ncore monos: Kef ref1-2.
IMF's

maro73
CU Subscriber Member
CU Subscriber Member
Posts: 1570
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:23 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby maro73 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:39 am

Hello
I read the ROON stuff and the RAAT
However , on Roon page , normally Bel canto is supported by Roon
I'll investigate
Cheers

User avatar
SimonJ
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 3322
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:35 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby SimonJ » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:35 am

maro73 wrote:Hello
I read the ROON stuff and the RAAT
However , on Roon page , normally Bel canto is supported by Roon
I'll investigate
Cheers


Bel Canto will be supporting RAAT then as it says on the webpage where Bel Canto is supported, it says


Roon Ready network players from our partners have Roon’s high-resolution streaming technology built right in.

Roon will discover them on your network, deliver the highest possible quality audio, and even allow volume control right from the Roon user interface!
Main system: GyroDec>Dynavector XX2MK2>Auralic Aries>Pimped DDDAC 1794>Coherant 4d>TE Vibe & Pulse PSU>Coherant 4D & 4D Mains>Sugden Sapphire FBA-800 & 4D Mains>Coherant 4D Speaker Cable>Focal 1028
Office - DIY System: MMStreamer>DDDAC>KT88 Valve Amp>Focal 1008

User avatar
caine
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 2788
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:21 am
Contact:

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby caine » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:38 am

Thanks guys. This thread was to make sure I wasn't screwing up.

Last ditch thought switched off all the media type programs running on my synology; media station, audio station, etc. No effect. To get the SBT recognised by roon as an end point, logitech server has to be turned off.

I've always genuinely enjoyed jriver and been running since the mms. After the demise of my mms, I ran jriver on my touchscreen PC which works great in Artist mode.

Roon's UI as Rune says is nothing to be sniffed at. Its exceptional listening to an album; looking at recommendations while reading history and tenious connections. I've found myself in the darkest area's of my music collection, original listening to something light and fluffy. Also I suspect ROON picked up the performance of the SBT, though not something I've done any for of A/B testing on.

It would have been nice to run both jriver and roon on the renderer. Jriver remote on iOS is better than iPENG for the SBT.

Back to giving the renderer a good listen too and so far I'm impressed !
SBT (mod) >7d coax> TAD D1000 mk.2 >5d> Belles LA01 (gen2) >5d> Marantz MA9S2 >4d> Vivid Audio B1
Townshend rack/platforms, Coherent interconnects, DIY mains. Room Conditioning.

maro73
CU Subscriber Member
CU Subscriber Member
Posts: 1570
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:23 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby maro73 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:13 pm

Hello
http://www.3d-lab-av.com/nano-network-player.html

No mention of Roon
It's the NMR card inside
Cheers

User avatar
caine
Addicted
Addicted
Posts: 2788
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:21 am
Contact:

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby caine » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:11 pm

Guys did anyone have issues with 24bit coming through from jriver (I am assuming that everyone ran jriver). According to jriver and the remote the program is 24/88.2; but the dac states 16/44.1 (in its way; displaying the freq of 44). Via the SBT, no issues the dac see's it as 24/88. Other issues I've noticed and tried to address with no luck. None of this happens with the SBT running either logitech server; running on NAS or ROON (core on same computer as jriver - library on NAS).

1. Couple of drop outs over six hour period.
2. Remote losing sync over a matter of minutes, needing to reconnect.
3. Volume from the NMR is noticeable quieter.

These are probably all jriver issues due to running it over a network. I've only run jriver (library on a NAS or server) on the PC direct into the DAC. So I maybe missing some tricks and tweaks.

Any advice appreciated as I would like to hear the renderer at its best.
SBT (mod) >7d coax> TAD D1000 mk.2 >5d> Belles LA01 (gen2) >5d> Marantz MA9S2 >4d> Vivid Audio B1
Townshend rack/platforms, Coherent interconnects, DIY mains. Room Conditioning.

maro73
CU Subscriber Member
CU Subscriber Member
Posts: 1570
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:23 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: NMR Network Media Renderer

Postby maro73 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:39 pm

Hello
Try C5 on IOS
I have not expérienced any drop outs , even with Eagles 24/192
Cheers