Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby caine » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:36 pm

Got many suggestions to your problem.

Buy yourself a spl meter. Maplins were doing a reasonable one for £40.

9M * 6M is a big room. I used to have a listening room that was 18M * 6M * 6M absolutely huge. I ran dac xp into mono X and it filled the room no problems.

You need a pre-amp. The cambridge audio pre offering will be rudimentary at best. A decent dedicated pre-amp will allow the 200 to sing; and will improve SQ on all levels and you'll notice more sound and not need to rin the system so hard. That said your speakers are large with double 8" woofers; and could do with more meatier amps. Maybe look at Bryston 4BBST2 which are a lot more powerful than cyrus offerings. Also you can pickup the power amp for £1500 ish. My Marantz will drive them speakers into the ground as they are 300w, but double down (2400W at 1ohm) and drive 150amps+. One amps 200w can be very different to another once a load is applied. My point is your speakers are maybe asking a little much of your little cyrus stereo at higher spl.

Last point why you would ever want to listen to SPL levels of 115 ? I reguarly listen to music from 75 into high 90's, beyond that I would be worried about my ears. You can come around my place and put the system on at spl of 100; i think blood will come out your ears after sustained listening, or your ability to listen will be screwed. I reguarly return from the pub with buddies for beer and tunz and never go over 96/97 except transients/cresendos
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby madaboutlawns » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:25 pm

Thanks for all the replies, I've had many more than I thought.
A lot of interesting ideas and suggestions.

What I'm aiming for is that big grin feeling you get when you just know you've got it right.

As regards the quality of recorded music - That's a journey I've just been on.
I started a couple or maybe three months ago with a set of Dali zensor 5's a dali centre and 2 sets of dali zenso 1's hooked up to a cinema set up.
Big screen projector, Dolby atmos av amp and sub.
Like I said I wasn't listening to music at all really, until I listened to a customers valve amp and large quad electrostatics.
He played music like Elvis and Roy Orbison.

I went home and started playing it on spotify, through my av system.
I then discovered that I was listening on spotify low quality, when changed it to 320bps I could tell the difference in sound straight away.
Then I found out about Tidal Masters and started playing this direct through my onkyo av amp, the difference was amazing.
After this I got my hands on an old record player from a relative and dropped a couple of hundred pounds in the local record shop, I bought an original 1979 copy the wall Pink Floyd (£10), and a few other of the greats from the last 4 or 5 decades. After this I started to research where the records were pressed and who had a reputation for skimping on quality etc.
I'v since inherited a hundred or so records from a family member who no longer listens to them.

That's when I thought about buying the Dali opticon 8's and cyrus stereo 200. I know at some ppint I'm going to need to upgrade my turntable and invest in a decent phono stage.

I feel this is just the beginning of my journey and I'm going to start finding places to listen to as much stuff as possible over the next few weeks.

A lot of stuff that I think I want is only in my head, the fact is, I only really know what my stuff sounds like, because I have experience of it.
I need to experience all this other stuff, speakers, amps, pre amps, streamers etc.
Then I will know exactly what it will sound like, not just what I think it will sound like, based on reviews or youtube videos or shop salesmen.
I'll start looking out for shows, and manufacturer demos, also I'll visit a few shops and start listening.
I'll go and see my friend with his valve amp as well and have a good listen to his system armed with my new knowledge and experience.

On a quick note, I see that x300s seem to sell for around £3k used.
I'm thinking that if I buy a pair and like them, then great. If I don't like them I can always sell them on again for a similar price and not much lost.

Thanks again everybody
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby callen24 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:28 pm

thanks to the other guys
My first thought were to do with hearing, but felt a little shy to ask
Have you had you hearing tested?
112db is incredibly loud, for example a brief bit of 92db with my set up has my internal organs feeling it. I only did this as a test. ive never had it that loud before.

if your ears are fine then beware, you won't keep enjoying music if you play at the high levels you are referring to. i want you to enjoy music for a long time.
In summary i think. people are saying don't make to many changes at once. And decide what you want, i'm not sure you are absolutely clear about what your priorities are yet.
Your current system might get you close to what you want, with little change i.e. caine suggests a pre, you might be surprised how much that might bring things together.But get a home demo before spending cash on anything.
i do not claim to be any sort of expert but I have made big buying mistakes in the past, i think that is why most of us advocate caution.
A good dealer can really help, for example kipper at Moorgate talked me out of buying a stereo 200, not because it's a bad amp, just because it didn't fit what i told him
Last edited by callen24 on Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby madaboutlawns » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:48 pm

Hearing is good.
But as I'm thinking around the subject, I might as well go and have a new test.

I'm really interested in listening to a full sig system.
I see on ebay that the stream x sig, dac xp sig and x300 sig are available at reasonable cost.
Normally I would been bidding by now and running round the country picking them up.

You are right about me not knowing exactly what I want, I think I need more listening experience.
It might be a case of I don't know what I don't know.

But thanks to you guy, I'm going to find a place to listen to the complete system.
Also, I'll try to listen to the bryston amps and a few others to see what the difference is, and a few pairs of speakers.
My system sounds good, so I've got something to listen too while I listen to some demos.
I'm going to keep a little note book and have some fun with auditioning, like a hobby.
I'll buy stuff when I find things exceptional, also I'll have some home demos, so I can compare in a real world scenario.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby Joe » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:55 am

Where are you located? With due respect to RS, my advice would be to find a proper Hi-fi dealer and go and listen to some stuff, maybe even at home if you're lucky. If the Cyrus/Dali sound is ticking all the boxes then I don't see why the 300's wouldn't go loud enough with the right pre-amp. Cyrus aren't generally known as the brand for blowing the bloody doors off mind you.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby callen24 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:50 pm

joe, my suggestion of RS was just an immediate thing he could do, they have his kit. they have lots of branches, he would have to take anything.
similarly someone suggested different speakers, the ones he has now are big boxes, that go loud already, as far as i can understand?
they are not particularly easy to drive, mind
but yes a good dealer is essential, but 112db isn't loud enough for him. I don't think anyone on this forum has it that loud?
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby caine » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:53 pm

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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby RichardLowe » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:02 pm

I think the SPL of 115 dBA is a red herring here. The SPL was measured using an app on an iPhone so I would be massively surprised if the reading is in any way accurate. If you got some professional measuring kit in, a true reading would probably find you were around 90+.

With any hifi I've ever listened to, and that includes some high end kit, long before the overdrive protection kicks in and cuts off the amp, I have to turn the music down. Very few systems are capable of "keeping it together" at extreme volumes, and it starts to sound hideous long before the amps cut out. Plucking a number out of the air, a system will reach about 90% of its maximum volume and still sound good, after that it will start breaking up and sound terrible.

I like loud listening sessions now and again so I downloaded an SPL app for my Sony phone. It got to 84 dBA at the maximum I listen to. Again, whether the little Sony mike is in any way accurate is highly unlikely, and if it is, 115 dBA would likely have blown my ear drums apart. The speakers were filling the room with massive bass and some of the ornaments in the adjacent room were rattling.

I think the cut off is happening probably due to the speakers impedance curve, and the inability of the amp to produce enough current to drive them. Speakers may have a nominal rating for impedance, but they vary widely across the frequency range. My speakers drop to 2 ohms on low bass, and bass takes a lot of current to move air at high volumes. On large drum hits or bass beats on dance music it may draw transients of many hundreds of Watts. Amps rated at 300W may only be able to deliver that at 8 ohms. When the speaker impedance drops the power required increases and many amps simply don't have the ability to cope. Caine mentioned he has amps that double down. That means as well as being able to produce a certain wattage at 8 ohms impedance, they produce double that at 4 ohms and double that again at 2 ohms. That means they can drive any speaker, with any music playing, and at their highest volume. The Cyrus 200 may be a good amp but I'd be shocked if it can cope with a hammering while connected to a hard to drive speaker.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby callen24 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:09 pm

RichardLowe wrote:I think the SPL of 115 dBA is a red herring here. The SPL was measured using an app on an iPhone so I would be massively surprised if the reading is in any way accurate. If you got some professional measuring kit in, a true reading would probably find you were around 90+.

With any hifi I've ever listened to, and that includes some high end kit, long before the overdrive protection kicks in and cuts off the amp, I have to turn the music down. Very few systems are capable of "keeping it together" at extreme volumes, and it starts to sound hideous long before the amps cut out. Plucking a number out of the air, a system will reach about 90% of its maximum volume and still sound good, after that it will start breaking up and sound terrible.

I like loud listening sessions now and again so I downloaded an SPL app for my Sony phone. It got to 84 dBA at the maximum I listen to. Again, whether the little Sony mike is in any way accurate is highly unlikely, and if it is, 115 dBA would likely have blown my ear drums apart. The speakers were filling the room with massive bass and some of the ornaments in the adjacent room were rattling.

I think the cut off is happening probably due to the speakers impedance curve, and the inability of the amp to produce enough current to drive them. Speakers may have a nominal rating for impedance, but they vary widely across the frequency range. My speakers drop to 2 ohms on low bass, and bass takes a lot of current to move air at high volumes. On large drum hits or bass beats on dance music it may draw transients of many hundreds of Watts. Amps rated at 300W may only be able to deliver that at 8 ohms. When the speaker impedance drops the power required increases and many amps simply don't have the ability to cope. Caine mentioned he has amps that double down. That means as well as being able to produce a certain wattage at 8 ohms impedance, they produce double that at 4 ohms and double that again at 2 ohms. That means they can drive any speaker, with any music playing, and at their highest volume. The Cyrus 200 may be a good amp but I'd be shocked if it can cope with a hammering while connected to a hard to drive speaker.

spec is supposed to be. 2 times 325 into 4 ohms
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby Attonine » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:20 pm

RichardLowe wrote:I think the SPL of 115 dBA is a red herring here. The SPL was measured using an app on an iPhone so I would be massively surprised if the reading is in any way accurate. If you got some professional measuring kit in, a true reading would probably find you were around 90+.


Interesting point. The past few weeks I’ve been studying for an HSE exam, so noise hazard has cropped up. It turns out that academics and HSE professionals have been researching smartphone apps for accuracy.

https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blo ... ound-apps/

This is the most academic, but aproachable, article I could find. It seems as though the apps are pretty accurate, but using an external microphone is better than the smartphones internal one. I think we can agree that should you measure your equipment and get a reading of 115 dB, you should be alarmed. If your ears are not bleeding at this volume, I think you can conclude either the reading is incorrect or that you already have some kind of hearing damage, or will very very soon.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby The Far North » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:34 pm

Given that a change of 3dBa represents either halving or doubling the noise level, an accuracy of +/- 2dBa still means a substantial shift from the actual reading, yet there is no easy way of knowing what that is. The additional part of the article when using external microphones states an improvement to +/- 1 dBa but only when the microphone has been calibrated. If you check out cheap noisemeters on eBay you'll find that the calibration devices are often more expensive than the meters themselves, and then the calibrators have to be sent off annually for calibration.

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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby madaboutlawns » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:45 pm

I'm really interested to find out what a dac xp sig might do to change the quality of the sound. Also the dac xp sig will allow me add a beter turntable and phono and at some point the stream x sig isn't a far stretch from here.
I agree that my speakers are very hard to drive. I've tried previously to drive them with lesser amps, that's why I bought the the stereo 200 as it was suggested to me that it could drive my speakers with no problems. To be honest, 95% of the time it does, and it sounds great.

How do you know what amps double down and what amps don't, and do they really double down?

One thing I have also been thinking about is a decent pair of headphones, do these sound great? And also do these go to high volumes?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree with, what I mean is, is it possible to have a full bodied satisfying sound like I want from good headphones?
I've never tried any, except for a set of bose in ear ones around 10 years ago with a budget mp3 player.

It's good to read all the comments and I find that there are some very experienced people in the hifi field on here.
It's useful to draw on other peoples experiences to stop me making the mistakes that other people have made before me, and also to give me different directions to think.

Thanks to everyone
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby RichardLowe » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:34 am

How do you know what amps double down and what amps don't, and do they really double down?


You should be able to get this information from the technical specification of the manual. Also, some reviewers publish this information or measure it directly in tests. Just search for the information on any amp you are interested in.

I think its been mentioned already but you could look at changing the speaker for a more sensitive one. The Dali Opticon 8 is listed as having an 88dB sensitivity. If you change it for one with a higher sensitivity you will get more loudness for the same power input. A difference of 3dB requires double the power so small changes in sensitivity are important. That's how teaming low power valve amps with very sensitive speakers can still produce a massive sound.
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby madaboutlawns » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:04 pm

Hey Everybody,

I've just sold an expensive exotic sports car.

So, what am I buying?
Is the sig system the one to go for? or is there anything better for the same sort of money or less?

Remember I'm basing my sig prices on the average you see on ebay.

If anybody wants to sell some sig at bargain prices, I'm in the market to negotiate.
I'm looking for best Streamer, Dac and pre amp.
Is the Stream Dac xp2 qx going to sound much worst than the sig separates?

Thanks
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Re: Stereo 200 turning off at volume, more power? x300 sig?

Postby wyjsar » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:16 pm

How about a ride on lawnmower with a built in entertainment system? Helps you get a new set of wheels to get over the loss of the exotic motor plus some banging sounds played at a high volume, high enough to hear over the noise of the mower engine.
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