Warning - Mains interference

regarding Cyrus products and other hifi related threads
MiniCoupeman
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Warning - Mains interference

Postby MiniCoupeman » Thu May 11, 2017 7:59 am

Still having trouble with my Melco (wi Fi/shared folder) I asked a neighbour who works with computers to take a look. He recommended wall plug T-Link 1200mps wi Fi extenders. Never got to find out if they work. As soon as one was plugged in my Turntable input put out a loud repeating beat. Rang Michell (Gyrodec) they identified the problem immediately. Solution. Don't put shit in your mains. If this is the sort of thing these range extenders can do to a turntable then my uneducated guess is they also play havoc with other kit, whether you can hear it or not.

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby crimsondonkey » Thu May 11, 2017 8:38 am

That's why everything but my integrated amp is plugged into a mains regen.

Power amps should have appropriate power supplies and filters to cope with this kind of mains noise.

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby MiniCoupeman » Thu May 11, 2017 9:29 am

On my list ,(but already overpent budget before cartridge - which will be purchased)

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby phlppip » Thu May 11, 2017 9:37 am

crimsondonkey wrote:That's why everything but my integrated amp is plugged into a mains regen.

Power amps should have appropriate power supplies and filters to cope with this kind of mains noise.


Likewise, and I have to say one of the best upgrades I made.

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby zippy » Thu May 11, 2017 9:39 am

ditto
Win10 PC with Asset UPnP server/BubbleUPnP app on Android tablet
AG1500 regenerator/StreamXSig->DAC XPSig(with PSX-R2)->Bryston 4BSST2->KEF Reference 3~2

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby crimsondonkey » Thu May 11, 2017 9:52 am

MiniCoupeman wrote:On my list ,(but already overpent budget before cartridge - which will be purchased)


Sell your beeswax fuses then which obviously aren't extracting the mains noise, and buy s/h a low power version of the Power Inspired regen ;D

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby julianh » Thu May 11, 2017 11:04 am

Would IanMac filters help with this?
Sources: Cyrus CDXT Signature, Cyrus Stream X Signature, Linn Sondek LP12 (Basik Plus, AT440MLa, Khan, Lingo 2, Trichord Dino & Dino+)
DAC: Schiit Gungnir Multibit
Pre: Schiit Freya
Power: Hypex nCore NC400
Speakers: Focal 1008Be
Cables etc: ML Cryo Ref, Kimber 8TC, IanMac filters, Black Ravioli Pads, VPI 16.5

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby MiniCoupeman » Fri May 12, 2017 7:43 am

Ok, OK, I get it! I will have to rebudget. Oh - and I have Ianmac filters.

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby mickbald » Fri May 12, 2017 2:20 pm

I use Powerline Ethernet extenders. They produce RF which is picked up by the arm acting as an aerial.

I use the mains regenerator for everything except the power amps and still have the problem. I just turn my powerline units (all of them) off to listen to vinyl.

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby MiniCoupeman » Fri May 12, 2017 3:28 pm

Thanks Mick, that is interesting because I would rather sort the wi Fi without extenders ( need and expert but changing to BT from Sky soon, so it will wait) and while I have had a regen on the radar for some time I have too many boxes ordered already!

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby Coda II » Wed May 17, 2017 10:05 am

mickbald wrote:I use Powerline Ethernet extenders. They produce RF which is picked up by the arm acting as an aerial.

I use the mains regenerator for everything except the power amps and still have the problem. I just turn my powerline units (all of them) off to listen to vinyl.


How does that manifest itself ie. in what way does it sound different with/without?

I don't use extenders but have had noise issues in the past, these had been all but dealt with until I installed a new phono stage last week. The previous one ran of an internal battery.

Coincidentally I also had the BT engineers round at work as the broadband was dropping - they introduced me to the issue of REIN (Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise) which seems to have been what the problem was, but the REIN detector in itself was a bit of a revelation in just how much noise there was in the vicinity of the router, this was mostly arriving from a big three phase electric motor in the room next door and as far as we could tell being picked up by the phone line.

Anyway, have just ordered a AG500 regen, will see what it does for the phono stage.

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby mfin » Thu May 18, 2017 2:02 pm

Homeplug adapters are useful things, but audibly I had to drop them when I changed to a Nord power amp from APA7.5s because you could hear the interference through the speakers. With just the power amp on, connected to the speakers with nothing connected into the Power Amp you could hear the interference coming out of the speaker, quiet, but noticeable. (Lord knows what other effects it was having and had been having on other boxes of my hifi, but this was enough to choose to get rid of the Homeplug adapters asap).

This could be heard and proved, plugging in and out the adapter, which was in a socket on the other side of the room not plugged in next to the hifi.

Luckily there are plenty of ways of getting kit connected. Personally I use a 5ghz Wireless Bridge located on the far side of the room which feeds a switch connecting all the devices in the room, it works great for all purposes, and was a sensible option as I could not run a wire from the router in another room without major hassle.

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby mickbald » Thu May 25, 2017 3:29 pm

Coda II wrote:
mickbald wrote:I use Powerline Ethernet extenders. They produce RF which is picked up by the arm acting as an aerial.

I use the mains regenerator for everything except the power amps and still have the problem. I just turn my powerline units (all of them) off to listen to vinyl.


How does that manifest itself ie. in what way does it sound different with/without?



Sorry for the late reply - been away.

With mine it only happens when I am using the turntable. I get the sounds of pops and rumbles (BEFORE I put a record on :P ) which changes frequency as I move my hand over the arm.

My dealer experienced the same problems but not with all phono amp / TT combinations. He worked first with Lehmann and installed a capacitor across the input from the TT. This fixed a number of combinations but not mine. He found the problem mainly occurred with LP12's with Linn arms. Other TT's and arms were less of a problem.

I eventually bought the Roksan which still showed the problem so I just turn the Powerlines off - I have found you need to turn them all off.

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby MiniCoupeman » Thu May 25, 2017 5:04 pm

BT came and went. LAN now works properly ( they did nothing but plug a router in and connect the telly) Melco works well - sounds vg. Back to happy land (and never liked Murdoch - if he was for something them I am automatically against it!) Opinion hardened.

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Re: Warning - Mains interference

Postby Coda II » Fri May 26, 2017 8:12 am

mickbald wrote:
Coda II wrote:
mickbald wrote:I use Powerline Ethernet extenders. They produce RF which is picked up by the arm acting as an aerial.

I use the mains regenerator for everything except the power amps and still have the problem. I just turn my powerline units (all of them) off to listen to vinyl.


How does that manifest itself ie. in what way does it sound different with/without?



Sorry for the late reply - been away.

With mine it only happens when I am using the turntable. I get the sounds of pops and rumbles (BEFORE I put a record on :P ) which changes frequency as I move my hand over the arm.

My dealer experienced the same problems but not with all phono amp / TT combinations. He worked first with Lehmann and installed a capacitor across the input from the TT. This fixed a number of combinations but not mine. He found the problem mainly occurred with LP12's with Linn arms. Other TT's and arms were less of a problem.

I eventually bought the Roksan which still showed the problem so I just turn the Powerlines off - I have found you need to turn them all off.


Thanks for that. The Powerlines are ethernet extenders aren't they? (rather than wi-fi extenders) But the interference you are getting is still 'airborne' - if the arm is picking it up as an aerial. Assuming I have understood what you are saying.
That being the case, if you need to turn all of them off, not just the one's nearest the turntable, it would seem to suggest that the inference is being 'broadcast' by the whole of the mains wiring not the unit itself ie the interference is generated by the Powerline unit but it's the mains wiring that is acting as the broadcast aerial.
I'm curious as a mains regen will clean-up what's on the mains being fed to the component but if it is also picking up airborne interference then the regen won't help with that will it.


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