Sonic Boom required for floor standers

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dropkick
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Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby dropkick » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:29 am

Iv'e been thinking about upgrading my speakers, but on a tight budget.
I'm only interested in second hand, my top line is say £600, only interested in floor standers. (They sound better don't they?)

My current speakers are Bowers & Wilkins P4's, which I really like, they have a solid atmospheric bass
a lively sound with good seperation and detail. I mostly play Vinly, and listen to Jazz, blues and anything inbetween.

I feel the speakers could be improved (whilst not loosing any of the bass charactaristics) with a more detailed
and precise mid range. My system room is roughly 18 foot wide by 12 feet, my speakers are about 2 feet from the wall.
They are front vented but the gap seems to improve dynamics anyhow.

Any suggestions on speakers would be most welcome, iv'e probably got one shot at this, and most likely can't demo
older speakers, so I'm very interested in the experience of other Cyrus users, as I trust many might have or have had
a similar set up to mine.

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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby angelface » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:50 am

I think that with cheaper speakers it is better to get stand mounters.

If you insist on floor standers I would consider s/h Spendor (I find them too laid back for my taste even if I have 4 wall mounted spendors in my home cinema system) or Dynaudio.

I listen to a lot of Bowers & Wilkins floor standers and the only one I liked was 805s which, yes, turned out to be stand mounters!
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby callen24 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:29 am

i suspect later model b and w will suit your, plenty available secondhand
check gumtree?
Last edited by callen24 on Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby dropkick » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:54 pm

angelface wrote:I think that with cheaper speakers it is better to get stand mounters.

If you insist on floor standers I would consider s/h Spendor (I find them too laid back for my taste even if I have 4 wall mounted spendors in my home cinema system) or Dynaudio.

I listen to a lot of Bowers & Wilkins floor standers and the only one I liked was 805s which, yes, turned out to be stand mounters!


Thanks for the reply, will have think about increasing the budget or possible stand mounters.
Open to more thinking, was really hoping there might have been some great older speakers that would have become more affordable with age.
After all the P4's go for under 300 and they've given me a lot of pleasure.
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby mojo » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:59 pm

If you want a more precise midrange, you may need to consider speakers with a true 3-way design. I've done that recently - going from a PMC 2-way speaker to an ATC 3-way one (both floorstanders), and the midrange is the part that is very noticeably different - as perhaps you should expect!

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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby jules » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:21 am

Hiya Dropkick,

Looking at old reviews of the B&W P4 they describe the bass as 'full' and even 'rich and you mention that you want to keep this character. With this is mind I would steer clear of brands such as ATC, Spendor - their bass would be too accurate for you IMO. Also I don't think a stand-mounter will give you enough bass.

I'd be thinking along the lines of Dynaudio, PMC and newer B&W floorstanders. There's some PMC FB1s on ebay for £600...
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby shaneclare » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:22 pm

For years I had floor standers but always craved more precise mid-range and so swapped to Wilson Benesh Arcs and loved them, so much so I upgraded to a pair of Discovery's, not sure if can get a pair of Arcs for £600 but if you can they might be worth a listen.
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby dropkick » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:29 pm

mojo wrote:If you want a more precise midrange, you may need to consider speakers with a true 3-way design. I've done that recently - going from a PMC 2-way speaker to an ATC 3-way one (both floorstanders), and the midrange is the part that is very noticeably different - as perhaps you should expect!


The advice so far has been really welcome including your comments. I think some might take a lot of their knowledge for granted, I have very little experience listening to speakers. Would never have considered Spendor, PMC, Dynaaudio previously because they aren't speakers I've ever listened too.

It seems obvious now you mention it, though so many speakers aren't three way, hadn't believed this to be a limitation until now.
Will check out adds for the brands mentioned so far and make the jump to a 3 way.

I auditioned the B&W (Bowers & Wilkins) CM8 speakers last year and really liked them, so these are a strong consideration, not seen them for 800 yet though.
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby dropkick » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:39 pm

jules wrote:Hiya Dropkick,

Looking at old reviews of the B&W P4 they describe the bass as 'full' and even 'rich and you mention that you want to keep this character. With this is mind I would steer clear of brands such as ATC, Spendor - their bass would be too accurate for you IMO. Also I don't think a stand-mounter will give you enough bass.

I'd be thinking along the lines of Dynaudio, PMC and newer B&W floorstanders. There's some PMC FB1s on ebay for £600...


Thank you I'm going to be keeping an eye on all of the suggested manufacturers.
I do feel, the natural sound of a double bass or bass guitar to be full and rich. And when it is it convey's realism for me, similarly with drums. You have me thinking now, because you interpret this as not necessarily being accurate. I never fully enjoyed the P4 speakers untill I upgraded to the Pre with Mono X's because the bass was less controlled, it does feel about right now though, looking forward to demoing some speakers in the near future.

Thanks
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby dropkick » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:42 pm

I am upping my budget to £1200 for a 3 way, Floor standing speaker SECOND HAND.

My room is 12ft X 13ft with wood floors.
Currently using Bowers & Wilkins P4 which are good would like a more concise and detailed mid.
Any recommendations of speaker models in this price range are welcome.

I Live in Reading not many places to demo older speakers, so i want to tap other minds.
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby julianh » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:09 am

If you’re in Reading you could always pop down to HIFi Hangar in Bordon as it’s not too far away and see what they’ve got available. Unfortunately they’re only open from Thursday through to Saturday They’re a seller of hifi mainly from the ‘70s and ‘80s. They do have a (brief) web site (https://www.hifihangar.co.uk/#) and sell a small amount on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/hifihangar).
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby Joe » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:46 pm

dropkick wrote:Currently using Bowers & Wilkins P4 which are good would like a more concise and detailed mid.

That's quite a specific requirement so you definitely want to try before you buy, as tempting as a blind buy bargain may be.
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby dropkick » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:52 am

julianh wrote:If you’re in Reading you could always pop down to HIFi Hangar in Bordon as it’s not too far away and see what they’ve got available. Unfortunately they’re only open from Thursday through to Saturday They’re a seller of hifi mainly from the ‘70s and ‘80s. They do have a (brief) web site (https://www.hifihangar.co.uk/#) and sell a small amount on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/hifihangar).


Thanks for the link will definitely go and check out this supplier!
Though I've ordered some speakers now, so depending on the success of my choice hopefully might be a gallop instead of a sprint.
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby dropkick » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:56 am

Joe wrote:
dropkick wrote:Currently using Bowers & Wilkins P4 which are good would like a more concise and detailed mid.

That's quite a specific requirement so you definitely want to try before you buy, as tempting as a blind buy bargain may be.


Spent some time in my local Audio T, who always give superb advice and product demos.
The kit being demoe'd was in excess of 50k an all Audio Note set up with Audio Note AN-E speakers, it was fantastic.

The speakers came in at 6k 4 times my budget.
My first introduction to hearing and learning about Audio Note and their philosophy of efficient amplification and speakers instead of power.
I left feeling very upbeat pondering over the dynamics of such good kit, whilst never feeling the sound of my own set up didn't give me near the same levels of enjoyment (on a lot lesser budget).

I also felt more positive and bolder about progressing with the sound I already had.

I had previously demoed the B&W CM/8 and really enjoyed it, I remember feeling the sound being more detailed and defined than my own.
So instead of exploring different paths, I decided to read more about the CM range of speakers.
And go for either the CM9 or CM10.
Our bodies are given life from the midst of nothingness.
Existing where there is nothing is the meaning of the phrase, "form is emptiness."
That all things are provided for by nothingness is the meaning of the phrase, "Emptiness is form."
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Re: Sonic Boom required for floor standers

Postby dropkick » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:23 pm

It's been a while since I posted in this thread but I wanted to give a quick update.
Initially I was very worried about the size of my room, and the appropriate sized speakers. I also wanted to get front vented floor standers but was open to suggestions. I listened to Russel K Red speakers, in my local Audio T along with Audio Note AN E speakers (6k). Cutting a long story short, the Russel K speakers sound stage seemed small. Nothing like the B&W P4's I was used to. As for the Audio Note well I'm not spending 6k....

In the end I stretched my budget to £1800 and started looking for second hand B&W CDM10 S2 speakers which I eventually purchased. Oh my GOD>

This is perhaps the first time I really felt totally vindicated for the the money I have spent to make my system. Everything came together at once. As expected speakers can make the biggest change to a system, and these certainly have. They are slightly to big for my room, they are rear vented and roughly 2 feet from the wall this removed the boom at my listening volumes, but since I've had them I've been enjoying music at lower volumes. Very very happy. Spent the first six months listening to CD's again and I rarely did that before, but the sound change has been so involving that I'm not so radical about vinyl now.
Our bodies are given life from the midst of nothingness.
Existing where there is nothing is the meaning of the phrase, "form is emptiness."
That all things are provided for by nothingness is the meaning of the phrase, "Emptiness is form."
One should not think that these are two separate things.

"Don't do it dog!"